Renforcer les capacités des leaders civiques de la prochaine génération

JOEL ROSENTHAL: Good morning, everyone. My name is Joel Rosenthal, and I have the pleasure of serving as president of Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs. To begin I want to wish you all a very happy Global Ethics Day and welcome you to this year’s keynote event.

Today marks the 11th Global Ethics Day, Carnegie Council’s annual moment to empower ethics as a force for good. To help frame our panel on next-generation civic leaders, I want to share a few of my own thoughts on ethical leadership and the role that ethics must play in meeting this challenging moment in world affairs. In light of growing partisanship, increasing violence, and the often irresponsible deployment of emerging technologies, it is essential that we recognize ethics as a vital tool for responsible leadership.

For some ethics has become an exercise in zero-sum thinking and for others ethics is merely an instrument to advance their personal truth or tribe. In a world of alternative facts and purposeful disinformation genuine moral reasoning is a frequent casualty. These days ethical argument often takes the form of righteous indignation and moral certainty. In this context, if you disagree with me, not only are you wrong but you are also a bad person, but we do not need to accept this as the status quo. Whether you attend university, work in the private sector, or serve in government, we all must challenge ourselves to recognize a few universal truths: No one is perfect and no one has a monopoly on virtue.

Throughout our lives values will conflict and trade-offs are inevitable, but we must recognize that one-dimensional moral assertions do far more harm than good. Ethics aims toward a telos, or an ultimate purpose. Its main feature is an iterative process of zigs and zags, open to correction and revision. In this way ethics is a practical tool rather than a static set of principles to be taken off a shelf. There is seldom just one course of action for addressing a complicated challenge but often several, each with different benefits, risks, and undesirable consequences. It is at this decision-making crossroads that ethics can help guide us.

Throughout my own career I have had the privilege of engaging with leaders from around the world, and I have learned that it is essential to balance conviction with humility. We tend to overcomplicate ethics, but at its core ethics is about self-discovery: What are my values, what are my standards, and what do I expect of myself and the institutions I work with?

It is impossible to get ethical choices right all the time, so it is essential to be open to reflection and correction along the way. In the practice of leadership I constantly ask: “What is my True North? What am I willing and not willing to do to achieve a goal, and how might those whom I respect judge my actions?”

To close, I will leave you with this advice: Remember that leadership is goal-driven, but it is also compromise-ridden. All of you will undoubtedly face compromises throughout your personal and professional lives, and while there is no magic formula the process of ethical reflection can serve as a powerful tool in living a good life. Finally, as you advance your studies and careers, beware of those preaching moral perfection as they are often the enemies of the good.

With that, it is my pleasure to pass the microphone to our moderator for today, Carnegie Ethics Fellow George Kamanda. George, thank you.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you, Joel, for those thoughtful remarks, ones that I believe reechoes the call for ethics as a force for good in a turbulent world and a recognition of its indispensible role in shaping our very personal and professional experiences.

Welcome to all of you joining online or in person, particularly our student audience today. Welcome. Welcome to Carnegie Council. We are pleased to have everyone join us today in celebration of Global Ethics Day.

As Joel rightly noted, my name is George Shadrack Kamanda, a Carnegie Ethics Fellow, civic leader, and diplomat, and I will be today’s moderator as well as a co-panelist because this is a very important conversation that I believe a young leader like myself can contribute to.

With me for this important discussion I have two brilliant youth leaders, Ms. Cathryn Grothe, research analyst at Freedom House and Ms. Zarlasht Sarmast, civic engagement program coordinator at Open Society University Network (OSUN).

Just to caveat a bit, the importance of Global Ethics as conceptualized and envisioned by Carnegie Council cannot be overstated. In the light of current global challenges, whether climate change, economic injustice, negative application of artificial intelligence (AI), or wars and conflicts, Joel’s remarks earlier embark on the goal of ethics and responsible leadership and in the iterative nature of shaping personal decision making.

With that as the overall context for our discussion today, our panel would like to share insights because as young leaders we have voices. We have the power to influence policy to make better decisions. We want to see how we can announce youth participation and intergenerational collaboration in civic life to tackle the most pressing issues and challenges that we face at the intersection of ethics and international affairs.

With that overall context, I would like to begin our conversation today by asking our distinguished panelists, myself included, one very simple question: How have your personal experiences shaped your understanding of ethics and influenced your personal decision making? Cathryn, I will start with you.

CATHRYN GROTHE: Thank you so much, George. It is great to be here with everyone, and thank you to those who are calling in.

It is a tough question; it is a big question. For a little introduction, I work at an organization called Freedom House. I work on our tesearch team, and we put out several annual reports that assess the global state of freedom, very broadly political rights and civil liberties. We also put out a report on Internet freedom, all of the online human rights that people are able to enjoy. Freedom House’s mandate is essentially a mission where the entire world is free, and just like this conversation around ethics and international affairs freedom and human rights are incredibly broad topics, and they are hard especially when you take this kind of global perspective.

One thing that I try to think about when I am approaching this work, especially when it starts at such a high level, the mission for a whole free world is wonderful but is also incredibly challenging, I think looking at the small-scale efforts where these actions are taking place, whether it is through grassroots civic organizations or through protest movements, media, or defending human rights protectors, things that are happening even in some of the most closed and repressive societies at a very small scale can actually have very large ripple effects rather than thinking about it in kind of a top-down government- or state-oriented way, so I always try to approach my work as being that there are big solutions that are needed everywhere but there are also piecemeal changes that are happening in real time by real people at a much smaller scale that are having meaningful impacts. I think when you can parse down and take these huge academic concepts and put them into practical life it has made it easier for me to tackle some of these bigger challenges.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you very much, Cathryn, for that insight that engages in several instances, talking about piecemeal solutions and big solutions.

With that, I can pass it over to you, Zar.

ZARLASHT SARMAST: Of course. Hi, everyone. Good morning.

I think ethics has been something that I had to learn through different experiences. I grew up in Afghanistan, and throughout my life I worked with several different organizations that helped me understand what ethics are, but I also learned about ethics through some of the experiences that I have had personally.

Back when I was in Afghanistan I was working with the International Committee of the Red Cross, and the work we did involved working with both parties involved in the conflict, meaning several different sides, sides that sometimes were not accepted by people, so our work was difficult. That is one experience that helped me understand the importance of ethics in day-to-day life.

I think one experience that shaped who I am today but also helped me understand even more the importance of ethics was in August 2021 when we had to evacuate a group of Afghan students from Afghanistan and bring them to the United States so that they could be able to continue their studies and live a normal life. When I was going through that experience and helping in the evacuation process I had to learn different aspects of ethics.

It was mentioned earlier by Joel how we do not always have to pay attention and practice—not that we don’t have to practice, but ethics can be very small things, like paying attention. If a girl is comfortable being evacuated with another group of students that also involves male students, it is paying attention to the importance of making people feel comfortable. I think for me today based on all the experiences I have been through ethics includes behaving nicely to people and being kind to one another, especially in the world we live in today where we are facing so many uncertainties. Simply checking in with each other and asking how everybody is doing in your professional working environment and with family and friends is how you practice ethics on a day-to-day basis.

I was told most of our audience today are students, so I would like to also reflect a little bit on traveling outside of Afghanistan and studying in different institutions helped me understand and pay attention to being in an environment where we have people from different cultures and different views that the students often have. Paying attention to all of those and making sure nobody is feeling uncomfortable are important and are part of ethics in fact.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: For myself I can go back deep to my own lived experiences and I resonate with your shared experience. Following the ten-year civil war in Sierra Leone, even today it is a very difficult conversation for so many people including myself, but what I learned through the process throughout the ten-year civil I believe that it has shaped my personal experiences and my professional decision making.

In the aftermath of the war, seeing people with—sorry to be a bit graphic—chopped-off limbs and amputated legs was a very heavy side, but with that experience I told myself that I have to do better, that citizens must do better, and that we can do better by doing what is right and making sure that we have democratic governance in the right places because I believe some of the factors that led to the war were because of the misuse and abuse of natural resources, citizens being unsatisfied, and things like that. Those experiences shaped my understanding about rights and responsibilities and shaped my understanding about civic accountability because it is one thing wanting to be a leader but it is another thing to actually help our leaders become better leaders as well as followers or citizens in that respect.

I deeply resonate with what you shared because I believe ethics starts from the personal. We have to be accountable on a daily basis. With both of your insightful explanations, it is a good time for us to shift to the next question, which I think will be definitely be at the same time reflective on the previous question: In what ways have civics and ethics played a role in your professional life, drawing upon your work at Freedom House in your case and for you at OSUN respectively, so I will start with Zar on this one.

ZARLASHT SARMAST: I think I first started learning about ethics and what role it has played during my professional career. I started my professional career back when I was an undergrad at the American University of Central Asia, and I had this project called “Recovering Forgotten Conflicts.” Through the Recovering Forgotten Conflicts project I wanted to tell the stories of people who were affected by war in my country, Afghanistan.

I had a small camera, and I would go and take pictures of people, and I would also collect and write down their stories. I organized small-scale photo exhibitions where I would invite people to learn about what happens after a bomb blast and what is the kind of conflict that is forgotten. My main idea was not just for people to pay attention to how many people were killed or how many houses were destroyed, but who were those people and how has this conflict affected them.

Through this work I had to learn the importance of becoming a professional and paying attention to whether or not somebody wanted their face to be in a picture and be known as a person who has been affected by war, so I had to work in different ways. I think what I want to say through this story is that ethics has highly helped me in my professional career to date by helping me understand those small details that are very important.

Moving on from that, I think learning all those small but important aspects helped me apply my experience to bigger experiences like the evacuation of Afghan students from Afghanistan and currently working with students who are displaced and relocated in the United States from countries like Gaza, Russia, Ukraine, and all the other places where we have conflict going on.

I think that the principles of ethics are important to apply, no matter where you work. It does not matter if you working in the civic engagement, education, or political sectors. There are always ways to incorporate the principles of ethics in your day-to-day life, interactions, and the work that you do. I think incorporating the principles of ethics in those sectors helps us create a better world, a world where we can work by getting along with each other, working more peacefully, and working comfortably, and making sure that the work that we are doing by incorporating the principles of ethics makes a better and bigger difference.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you very, Zar. Over to you, Cathryn.

CATHRYN GROTHE: This is a good question, and I think one of the themes I have heard Zar talk about as well as George, are the small-scale changes, and I mentioned this as well.

Talking about what we do at Freedom House, we put out these reports. They are massive. They cover 210 countries and territories around the world, and they are essentially underpinned by an ethical framework. We are looking at how people are able to exercise their rights, liberties, and freedoms around the world, so the output itself is this assessment of essentially ethics and how people are able to live their lives: Are their rights protected or are they undermined?

To narrow that down, one of the things I like to think about is that it is not just the output but it is how we are doing our work and “walking the talk” and embodying some of the things that we put forward, the recommendations we make in our research, and it starts with our day-to-day at a very small scale level that is not seen, and some of the more prominent communications-like materials, the reports, and these events that we do.

For example, to produce this massive report called “Freedom in the World,” we work with country analysts all over the world. These are people who are experts in a given country or territory. They are academics, they are civil society leaders, and they are journalists, and one of the ways that we like to work is to work with people who either live or are from the country that they are covering, but of course this is not always possible. We want to make sure we are prioritizing safety and security, so in certain cases, say, if we are covering North Korea, it would be unsafe to work with someone in that country given its repressive nature.

So we have to think on a day-to-day basis. Not only do we want to produce rigorous research, but we want to make sure that the people who are working are able to do it in a safe manner that is going to again produce these products that are important tools for policymakers, researchers, and academics, but that the people who are doing the work, the people behind the scenes of these massive products, are also prioritized in an ethical way that we are making sure that they are able to do the work safely.

We also try to make sure to eliminate bias. Bias is an unavoidable thing in this sort of work, but one thing we do when we are doing these country reports is to make sure that we are working with independent folks, people from civil society, and not working with governments, which may have a vested interest in how their countries are portrayed. I think this goes along with these other themes of having this ethical framework not just in the broad, big worldview, but at your own personal level and integrating that into how you work, which is important to me.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you, Cathryn, for connecting the dots. I believe, Zar, you mentioned the universal applicability of ethical principles wherever you are, doing the little things and making sure that what is right I think is right to that extent. You also talked about rights being protected.

I resonate with that too, and from my own personal experience I believe both ethics and the role of civics have played and continue to play a very pivotal role in my understanding of rights and responsibilities. I also believe in the school of thought and based on my experience living in Africa and coming from the Global South that everything rises and falls at the doorstep of responsible citizenship and ethical leadership because with those two caveats I believe we can empower society but at the same time we can get to the nooks and crannies of issues that affect our societies.

What do I mean by that in terms of citizenship? I believe the inputs or the outputs that you have within yourself to say: “I am going to be better, I am going to be an everyday citizen, I am going to be active, I am going to engage, but I am also going to make sure that I follow the rules and also be there for other people.”

In terms of leadership, of course, it speaks to the way we carry ourselves individually in our public and private lives because when we look at society today we see the decline of leadership. I will go as far as to boldly say in my individual capacity that we are seeing the decline of ethical leadership. With such conversations I think that young people and young leaders are trying to harness and that we can make that difference and be able to reflect on our ethics that powers our individual decisions.

With that caveat, Joel mentioned something in his insightful remarks. Every time I listen to him speak I learn so much, not only about current realities but about our understanding of current realities. It is very important that we know what we are doing today.

On that basis I would really like to caveat a final question by asking you to reflect on how you view ethics as a North Star—I think Joel mentioned that—that guiding principle, in your personal and professional lives to date? With that, I will start with Cathryn.

CATHRYN GROTHE: This is a great question, and I like the “North Star” phrasing. It is a hard question.

Again, going back to so many things that have been said, it starts at a personal level. I think people who work in this field almost take for granted some of the underpinnings of things like international humanitarian law and human rights conventions, this body of work that we all operate in, and it is this given that we are doing good work and it is all ethical, but it is not enough, and I think this is something that is part of the Global Ethics Day messaging, that it is not enough to just have these frameworks on the books but you have to put them into practice. It has to be an active engagement starting at the personal level.

One thing I keep in mind comes from my time when I was doing more humanitarian aid work in Lebanon. This was years ago. One of the central tenets is, “Do no harm.” It is taking yourself at what is happening, what is every decision you are making, and what is the impact, even if you are under this umbrella of, “We are doing good, providing services, and making sure it is done in collaboration with the people who are going to be impacted by these decisions.”

One thing I think about every time I engage in this work is, Am I the right person to be doing this? If I am given the opportunity to write an op-ed on global affairs or something in the Middle East, I always like to think: Am I the right person? Is it my voice that people need to hear, or would it be more impactful to coauthor this report with someone from the country I am talking about? Would it be more impactful to step away and let someone else raise their voice and have that platform?

I think a lot of times with ethics we are talking about conviction—standing up for what is right and staying true to the things we all value and believe—but I think it is also about knowing when to step back and knowing when maybe it is better to share your platform, share your leadership position, and share your power with people who are going to be able to benefit from that and whose voice might be more important than your own. That is one thing that I think is the North Star of how I approach this work.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: I appreciate the way you skillfully broke down a very tough question, because when we talk about ethics we have to look at not only our personal ethics but professional ethics.

Zar, what would be your perspective on this?

ZARLASHT SARMAST: I would echo everything Cathryn just shared but also say that I think embracing empathy and fairness are very important and again approaching the topic and implementation of ethics again in day-to-day life.

Right now, looking at everything that is happening around the world today, we can see how important it is for all of us living in the world to embrace ethics, embrace all the principles of ethics, fairness, and empathy to make sure that we are playing our role as individuals to make the world a better place and to play our part in problem solving and in solutions, whether that is raising awareness about what we see, talking about what we see, talking about what we think is injustice, to the people we think can help support in a way that we are not harming anybody else’s belief or rights.

I would conclude by saying that moving forward after this panel today observe everything that is happening around you and try to see what it is you can do as an individual in your space, whether that is in your family, at the office, in your classrooms, or when you are with your friends. Always keep an open eye, observe, and see where ethics is missing, and what you can do to remind people that what is going on is not right and what can be done to bring a change. Observe and talk about it and remember the principles of ethics and play your part.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Wow. I can also reecho the responses from Cathryn and yourself. For my part, faith and ethics in general and having the hope to pursue it respectively have been my unwavering North Star. When I hear you both speak I see the need for individual and collective responsibilities, understanding of rights and duties, and making sure that we bring everyone along, but doing that with the power of collaboration, with the power of knowing that everyone belongs in our society. I feel really connected to that.

If I can recall my own journey, starting at a very young age in Sierra Leone, June 16, Africa Day, was my first exposure to any public speaking, to anything being of advocacy to others. Now, reflecting as a young diplomat at the seat of international diplomacy at 32, representing my country and reflecting on my role too as an educator and author in shaping of generations maybe in my own bracket but also those after me about the importance of civic rights and civil responsibility and in general as a civic leader from the Global South and knowing that we have difficult issues to talk about, but once we sit at that table we engage constructively, we engage knowing that our actions matter and our inactions also matter. I feel that that connection is very important for me to reflect on.

On a personal note, just to wrap this section up, in a world often driven by titles I believe personally in the power of performance over position or over any title that you may hold in your society. Over time there have been challenges in living my ethics and in living my rights and duties and making sure that when these setbacks happen I am able to pick myself and move on to what is next.

I have always chosen integrity and responsibility as the true markers of my own leadership, helping others and being a mentor to so many in my country, Sierra Leone, and to make sure that my service reflects our current humanity. Through my determination and through the several explanations I believe we have all shared, collective accountability and responsibility matters.

I strive on a personal basis because when I look at ethics I also have to question myself first to be able to be effective to others, not just to lead but to uplift and to inspire, knowing that my true and real impact is measured by the values that I stand for and the values that I live by, and not just by the titles I hold.

With that, we can caveat to thanking my co-panelists because I have been part of the conversation and have enjoyed listening to you both, and I think it is a perfect time for us to widen this discussion and hear what our patient audience online and in person has to say on this important discussion.

First, I would like to go to Carnegie Council editor Alex Woodson, who has a question from our online audience.

ALEX WOODSON: Thanks, George. Lots of questions. I just wanted to note some of the nations watching today, if you are watching from these nations—Ghana, Ethiopia, Argentina, Botswana, the Netherlands, Tanzania, Kenya, Cameroon, Ukraine, Liberia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Switzerland, Sierra Leone—lots of people from Sierra Leone, George—India, the Maldives, Rwanda, South Africa, Somalia, Burkina Faso, and I am sure there are a lot of others too.

A few really good questions. One: “How can the ethical choices of today’s civic leaders shape the societal norms and values of future generations?”

And another question isabout what role cultural diversity has to play in ethics. Those are a couple to get started.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you very much. Cathryn.

CATHRYN GROTHE: These are tough questions. I will start with the first one around what can leaders do in terms of ethical norms for future leaders. I think this was mentioned earlier in the discussion, how we are at a point where we are seeing maybe an erosion of some of the underpinnings of some of these ethical frameworks that we want to see in our world. We are seeing leaders chip away rights, whether it is in the United States or elsewhere. We are seeing horrific wars causing mass human suffering for large portions of populations. It is a gloom world.

What gives me hope is that in times when leaders are not able to stand up—and I am thinking governments here—and do the ethical things, do the things that are needed to continue to support rights and liberties around the world, we are seeing that gap filled with young people, with civic society, whether it is people taking to the streets to call on their governments to stop sending arms to countries that are perpetuating human rights abuses and wars, or whether it is standing up in repressive regimes and calling for more basic rights. I think we are seeing such a groundswell of positive movement from young people, civil society leaders, activists, and journalists who are filling this gap sometimes where I think the broad society is saying: “These are our values and this is what we want, and if governments aren’t delivering it we are going to do the work that we can to try to push it forward on that local level.”

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you. Over to you, Zar. What would be your take on the question?

ZARLASHT SARMAST: I think as young leaders or people who are working with people who are learning to become leaders it is important to pay attention to listening to their voices and see how they see things differently, giving them the space to express their ideas, but also helping young leaders who are learning civic engagement and ethical leadership, giving them the space to express their ideas but also helping them implement those ideas.

At OSUN we work with so many young leaders across the world who are working in women empowerment trying to find solutions for issues that big leaders in big positions cannot today. I think it is important to give space for them and listen to their voices because they might see things in a completely different perspective than we do, and they might find a solution that we did not think about at all and did not cross our minds.

For example, in Afghanistan we have a group of young leaders we work with at the Open Society University Network and Bard Center for Civic Engagement who provide academic educational opportunities for women in Afghanistan in a way that is completely safe. This opportunity and this program is happening right now because they were given this space, because their voices were heard, and because they were provided with the resources they needed in order to implement this project. They do this interestingly through WhatsApp. It is a very simple app and they are teaching women English and mindfulness through that.

Reflecting on this question I think we should always give importance to young voices and give them space. I think in a nutshell giving young voices space and helping them when it comes to civic engagement project ideas and helping them learn more how to implement those projects ethically, considering and paying attention, and respecting all the principles of ethical leadership.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: For my part, just to reecho both of your insights on this very important question, I think the ability for us to know that we are awakened to a sense of responsibility as young people and being able to realize that we have the power, both in our individual and collective voices, is something that gives me hope and the passion. Sometimes we get a bit deflated when we see things not going away, not changing, when things are backsliding democratically or when we are facing challenges particularly from the Global South on the continent I have been engaged with and saying things are not going the way they should go in terms of providing social and basic needs and things like that, but just having that courage and conviction to know that our voices matter and that we can collectively and individually be able to make some tangible changes gives me hope. I believe it is very important for us to continue that engagement constructively and civilly in that regard.

I think the second question touched on the importance of cultural diversity, and I think you guys are going to enjoy this question, but I will start with Cathryn on this one.

CATHRYN GROTHE: I talked about this a little bit as part of my personal goal of knowing when to use my conviction and my platform and knowing when to step back and share that. In all of the work we do, whether it is things like humanitarian aid or human rights research, I think you have to take into account that there is not a “one size fits all” solution to every problem in the world.

One thing I learned pretty early on when I was working in Lebanon is that when we would come back to New York and go to convenings at the United Nations or have these meetings at these decision-making tables oftentimes it was a lot of people who looked like me who sat there and were talking on behalf of Syrian refugees living in Lebanon. This is changing, which is great, but I think being able to make sure there is representation at places of power and places of decision making, making sure that solutions, whether they are things like how we can provide gender-based violence counseling in different humanitarian or crisis settings is taking into consideration that it is not just a gender issue: How are we going to integrate men into this? How are we going to integrate people with disabilities? How are we going to integrate all of the different kinds of intersectionalities I guess into these solutions for these problems.

It is a hard thing to do, but again, just going back to hope, this is getting better as we see more and more young people taking on positions of power. This seems to be front of mind for many people, which I think is a good thing to keep working toward.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you very much. I think we can now open the floor to our in-person audience to hear their own perspectives on this very important discussion. As Kevin noted early on, if you are interested in asking a questions, you can raise your hand and the microphone will be given to you.

QUESTION: Thank you very much. It was great listening to you and learning great stuff about keeping those ethics and moving forward with responsibility, also being engaged with the global things that are happening right now.

My question is to I think all of you because everything you said was relevant to each other and related: How do you protect the security or safety of those involved in engagements in trying to give them those spaces to talk or to express themselves? How do you then—I know it is not your job, of course—protect their safety when they are expressing those thoughts and trying to be engaged with whatever is going on and trying to be on the right side?

Sometimes the expressions of those young leaders are clashing with the state’s interest. How do we set the boundaries or safety issues for the people who are trying to be involved?

ZARLASHT SARMAST: I think that is a very important question, and I say that because when we work in different environments where political and social situations are different it is important to pay attention to the safety of those who are trying to take part in problem solving.

I think educating ourselves is the first step—at least, that is what I do—when it comes to providing civic engagement opportunities or spaces for people to speak or share their ideas, educating ourselves about the environment we are in, educating ourselves about the political situation, educating ourselves about the sensitivities, and communicating in a clear, understanding, and kind manner to the person who is trying to play their role in problem solving I think are the first steps to ensuring the safety of those individuals.

Sometimes emotions can be very strong and some individuals might want to really stand up about an issue, and in those situations I think if we cannot play our part in making sure that these individuals understand the sensitivities we should warn them about what the consequences might be or give them a different way of approach as a person who is more experienced in that field doing a little bit of research and work and giving a different idea or creating a pathway for the individuals to make sure they reach their goals and talk about those topics and play their roles in problem solving.

CATHRYN GROTHE: That was a great answer, and I was actually thinking back to something you said earlier when you were talking about the importance of checking in with people. We all work on challenging issues in the world, and I think one of the ways you can help people, especially human rights defenders or activists who are working in incredibly challenging situations, is also realizing that they are people with very basic needs that need to be met including their mental and physical well-being and safety. This was something that you mentioned as a priority in your work, and I think the physical work that we all do and especially human rights defenders and activists and journalists are doing is so incredibly important, but it cannot be done if your basic needs aren’t met and if you are not able to prioritize your own well-being, so I think that is a central point in terms of keeping people safe in this work.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: I will reecho the same. To save time, understanding and educating yourself about the sensitivities and the political landscape as Zar succinctly mentioned I think is very important. I may be a bit biased, but as a civic educator for a long time I think we cannot afford to stop educating and teaching young generations. We cannot. We have to continue, we have to be resilient, and we have to make sure we understand as educators the rights and responsibilities within that process.

QUESTION: The United States employs I believe 300,000 people who work in public relations (PR) and about 45,000 journalists. I was wondering if you have had any experience working with PR people or spin doctors, people who shift narratives, and how you resist the narratives that they are paid to insert.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Cathryn, I think this question is tailor made for you.

CATHRYN GROTHE: This is a great question, and I think this issue of deliberate disinformation and government-aligned media that is putting out fabricated and/or massaged material that very much aligns with government policy is something that has been happening forever. It is certainly something that is increasing, and it is getting hard to parse truth, what is disinformation, what is manipulated content, in the age not only of the internet but of AI, which has been able to essentially supercharge disinformation. Governments now are able, as you mentioned—this is not necessarily in the United States—to hire disinformation-for-hire networks, which are becoming more rampant all over the world. We see it in places like Egypt and Mexico. It goes across the spectrum of different government types.

There is so much power and progress that has been brought with the internet in terms of connection and being able to stay connected to people all over the world and to be able to access information about your local polling place. Everything in between has been great, but there are also these immense challenges as we continue to move forward technologically.

In terms of countering this disinformation or pro-government media it goes back to what you were just saying about education, digital literacy, and making sure that you are able—and sometimes it is hard as things get more sophisticated to understand what is AI-generated, what is disinformation, and what is a bot putting out versus what is authentic. This is a challenge and something we have been working on in terms of what tech companies, media organizations, and governments can do to make sure that the online space remains not only open and free but also safe from these harms of disinformation.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Zar, do you have anything to add on that one?

ZARLASHT SARMAST: What I want to add would be doing all that and also trying to find ways to put out correct information too. When you see disinformation, again see what you can do to not disinform but actually inform people about the different sides of the story, the different sides of the information that is being shared. I think that is absolutely important.

QUESTION: Good morning. My question is a follow-up question to what my friend asked over there and is in terms of results. When we talk about ethics and change, I think Cathryn mentioned it is not enough, and you also said that the population is declining to be future leaders. In terms of results, how do you communicate the results of change, let’s say, to the younger generation? We just talked about a very distorted world, and the young generation is very distracted. How would you motivate and encourage the young population to be the next change makers? Basically my question is what tools and strategies would you use?

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: I think that is a very important question, especially because based on our earlier discussion it touches upon so many of the important things we have to do.

I would like to start on this one. Just to conceptualize it further, we talk about educating a generation, so I think digital literacy is very important, also as a civic educator I have studied utilizing that in my firm in Sierra Leone, empowering my student fellows and things like that. A thing I conceptualize is citizenship in a digitalized age or a network age because we cannot do without social media now, particularly our generation. It is very important.

Knowing that caveat that it is important for you to have digital literacy, but it is also important for you to have the basic understanding of civics, the importance of civility, how you engage constructively, and how you criticize, because we can have constructive criticism or something on the other side of it, and I feel that understanding those basic caveats will get us there.

In addition to that, I think collaborating with other people from different cultures can really enhance our global understanding because you can find somewhat a different perspective in Kenya, Afghanistan, Estonia, or other places that have similar concerns as young people, but he or she is unable to portray that on a global stage, so collaboration is very important in that regard.

With that, I think I can pass it over to Zar. Maybe you have something else to add.

ZARLASHT SARMAST: I think that is a really important question, and I want to say that the young generation is not the next generation. I think they are the present generation. We should give them the space to be present and hear their voices because I think that the way the young generation experiences and understands things is very different than more senior leaders do. I think their voices should be heard, they should be given the space and political, social, educational, and academic, all sectors, they should be given opportunities to incorporate their ideas when it comes to problem solving and creating policies and implementing those policies. They should be given a space to be involved in every sector of the society.

I think we can start here today. There are young people in this room. I think they have ideas. After this panel is over, we should speak with them, communicate with them, and listen to their ideas, and see how we can collaborate moving forward. I think young people in today’s world with the resources that are available AI is not only bad, but it has also been good in educating young people and all of that.

CATHRYN GROTHE: I wish there was a better answer of “Here are all the tools in this nice tool kit you can have,” but I think one of the easiest or most tangible things is if you live in a country that holds elections and you are able to participate in the political process, it is to vote. Use the political power that you have, not just in national or legislative elections, but in local elections.

I think that is important and something that might get swallowed up by the media around elections, that, yes, of course national and general level elections are important, but local politics can have such a more meaningful impact on people’s lives, so learning about candidates, educating yourself about what is happening not just at a national level but in your neighborhood, whether it is the city council or mayoral race or things like that. When those tools are available I think they are important to be used.

The other I think would be just to keep up the pressure. Call for what is right. If there is something you are really passionate about, join an organization about it, join a protest, get out there and talk to people. There are a lot of barriers to entry around politics, but there are also a lot of other avenues to engage at a civic level.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: We have time for another question or two.

QUESTION: First of all, thank you all so much for being here. I was born and raised in Ethiopia, so a shout-out to those who are watching from home. I am an educator, but I am also a graduate student. I work at a high school in Brooklyn and my question is for my students basically. A lot of them feel a sense of hopelessness based on the status of the world. I have a good amount of students who also want to go into the field of international affairs. What advice would you have for them, and how can you encourage young citizens?

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: Thank you very much. Maybe it’s fitting that I start, and then I will pass it over quickly.

One bit of advice I can give is that you continue to work hard and study because there are so many issues right now and we have all these tools in the toolkit. Artificial intelligence has also helped, where you can just sit down and say, “Google, explain to me about the entirety of the United Nations,” or something like that, but I think the ability to continue to study and to continue to expose yourself in your community and to continue to engage with other people.

Personally one thing I can reflect on that has shaped my understanding of my field as a diplomat is the power of mentorship. I think it has helped. You consult someone in your desired field, you consult someone in the global scale of things, you can follow people who are actually doing what you are thinking of doing and things like that. I think just being able to continue to engage and still be learning new things would be my simple advice at this time.

ZARLASHT SARMAST: I think connecting, I understand that, and I have heard so much from other young leaders that I work with closely across the Open Society University Network in countries like Afghanistan and Gaza, where we are working with young leaders who did civic engagement projects and now they have no hope to stay in their country and what they are doing but focusing on being evacuated and just saving their lives. At times like that it is really hard to have hope.

I think in those times if we are connected with those individuals it is important to remind them of the resources that are available that they can use in order to continue the important work that they are doing, but also using our resources on a bigger scale. I think the next step would be letting them know about the positive things that are happening. For example, in Afghanistan right now education is banned for women after sixth grade. They have no right to work or be in public spaces. Women cannot go to parks or university.

At times like this, the hopeful people who are connected with the people who are losing hope have the responsibility as part of the ethical leadership they should follow to make sure those individuals are connected to the right resources and raise awareness about and continue to talk about the positive things that are happening and let them know that this will pass. If you continue the fight that you are doing right now, there will be a positive outcome.

CATHRYN GROTHE: I will be very brief and echo what both of you have said. It is a scary time around the world. It is very easy to get caught up in the news headlines and the doom and gloom of everything, and there are some incredibly real challenges that need to be dealt with, but in terms of what younger students might be thinking about if they are feeling a little apathetic or scared of joining into this fight, one thing I like to remind people is that certainly the world is not perfect. There are many, many challenges and many horrific things that are happening.

However, when we started our Freedom in the World report over 50 years ago there were I think only 40-something countries around the world that were rated free, where people were able to experience their full rights and freedoms. Today that number is up to around 84 countries.

Democracy and freedom are not a sprint; they are a marathon. If you look back and contextualize it over time, the world is increasingly getting more free and people are having more rights. It does not mean that the work is over, but I think it is important to put it in context that this moment in time is hard, but if you look back things are slowly getting better and we need to continue pushing that marathon forward.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: I would agree to that definitely. It is a marathon, of course.

We have time for one last question.

QUESTION: Hello, everyone. I have a question: How can you follow the etiquette when time is very important, and is it reasonable to break the rules in order to solve a problem affecting a group of people and not just individuals, especially when there is no time to create a plan B? It is about when you mentioned the topic about the evacuation of the women in Afghanistan.

A second question: Do we think that the rules of etiquette can change over time?

ZARLASHT SARMAST: The short answer, when it comes to breaking the rules to do the ethical thing, yes, and I think we did that during the evacuations of students. I want to say that at that time I think one of the reasons that Bard College Annandale, Open Society University Network, and a number of other local and international organizations that were involved in working with us could not evacuate over 270 students, a number that I think is higher than any other evacuee group by other international organizations. I think that would not have been possible if we did not pay attention to the limited time we had and if we didn’t find plan Bs and work our way around an evacuation of the students.

At that time, when the Taliban first took over Afghanistan, the rule was already in place. Because of the chaos that was happening there were not enough resources for the new current regime in Afghanistan to implement this rule of women not leaving the country. We had to use that time, as chaotic as it was, as an opportunity to find a way to evacuate our students. We were not breaking the rules with the government of Pakistan, the Netherlands, the U.S. government, and the Kyrgyzstan government, which is a small country very close to Kazakhstan, to collect the documents to evacuate our students, and not all rules and laws were followed. Because not all rules and laws were followed and the time was very limited, that resulted in a successful evacuation and having our students get into the United States.

If we had followed the rules, I don’t think we would have been able to evacuate that many students, and it was important for us to do so because only a year before the takeover of the new regime we had a student who was killed in Afghanistan, Fatima Khalil, because she was graduated from the American University of Central Asia and because she was working for the Human Rights Commission in Afghanistan. That would have been the case for a lot of our students because they were students at an American institution, so, yes.

CATHRYN GROTHE: I don’t have much more to add except that I want to hear more about the work that you do because it sounds so important.

GEORGE SHADRACK KAMANDA: I was just about to say the same thing.

Thank you, everyone. With that we have come to the end of our program for today. I would like to take this time to thank each and every one of you for coming to our forum today and for celebrating Global Ethics Day with us here at the Carnegie Council. For those joining us online, our in-person audience, and for those who will be watching this webcast at a later time at their own leisure, we say thank you.

Of course, a special thanks goes to Joel, Kevin, and everyone who has made this event and this day possible, as we continue to use the power of ethics to build a better world, as we say here in the Carnegie Council, “Ethics empowered.” Thank you very much for coming.